JOY: Veronica and Logan have just had some very sweaty sex. Very sweaty. So sweaty. Everyone's moist.
HZ: But she's a sexperson now. Of course, she has to ruin it.
VERONICA: Woof! You should seriously consider going pro in that.
JOY: Why, Veronica? Just savour the moment.
HZ: She can't. She has to ruin moments.
JOY: At least she doesn't say a Clint Eastwood quote right now, in bed.
HZ: Do you think she said one just before?
JOY: Before we got there? Yeah, totally.
LATOYA FERGUSON: The amount of things I never thought I'd have to care about in a TV show that are in this season. Incorporation. Airplane hangars. At least like when The OC did all its real estate plots, it was interesting. But like... Jesus, incorporation.
Read MoreHZ: I don't acknowledge dream sequences. You know this.
JOY: Ha, yeah.
HZ: Well, I don't acknowledge this one. Fucking Lianne Mars? I hadn't missed her, I'd forgotten all about her.
JOY: Yeah, I kind of forgot that she ever existed.
HZ: But she's bearing laundry, because, in this dream, she's the perfect mother - as in domestic, and just sort of smiling gently at everyone else who's more interesting. She's got a much bigger house...
ALANNA BENNETT: Yes.
HZ: ...and a pancake breakfast, and Keith's in sheriff's uniform, and Veronica body-shames herself.
ALANNA BENNETT: Yes, because she's still the Disney popular girl, and gullible. I like that in her head it's like, "I wish that I were still this, like, gullible little princess."
JOY: Ha! The good old days.
JOY: I was so busy thinking about Weevil and math together.
HZ: Yeah? That doing it for you?
JOY: Yes. Two of my favourite things, Weevil and algebra. Math that I understand.
HZ: I didn't know you were into algebra. There's so much I still have to learn about you.
JOY: I mean, it's not like my passion, but if I had a workbook right now...
HZ: You could algebra the shit out of it.
JOY: I would absolutely do it to take the edge off anything to distract me from the yawning void just outside of my peripheral vision.
HZ: There's quite a lot of setup this episode for this guy Lucky, but we see him for about 30 seconds, so just don't peak too soon.
JOY: Chekhov's... veteran?
HZ: Chekhov's really saving him for another play. "You know what, I'll seed Lucky in the first act of Uncle Vanya, but I won't get on to him until Three Sisters."
JOY: I'm laughing like I have any idea what Chekhov wrote and in what order, but I don't.
HZ: Anyone? Anyone?
JOY: Why on god's green earth does this show refuse to show me anybody doing reps that I would like to watch doing reps? Why is this our fate? Here's a list of people that could do reps at any point on the show: Wallace; Cliff...
HZ: Cliff would be hilarious. Cliff would do it in like a white undershirt and some massive blue boxers and black business socks. And a tie.
JOY: And that would be fine. I would like to watch Lilly Kane do some reps...
HZ: Oh, yeah. Alicia doing reps.
JOY: Oh hell yes. Weevil...
HZ: I don't think I'd want to see Weevil doing reps. It just doesn't seem like his thing, like he'd rather be alone whilst he's exercising.
JOY: Oh, OK, well whatever Weevil wants, obviously.
JOY: Here's some stuff that we find out that I don't care about: she had her ex-boyfriend's name tattooed on her ass after two weeks, then she got it removed, which took six weeks, so that the guy that she's getting married to would never see it, and also one of them lost her cellphone last night, and there was a guy creeping around them at the Happy Horseshoe. Here is what we find out that I do care about: they went to an all-male revue called "Packaged Meat".
HZ: Ew.
JOY: Ha! Helen! Get on my level. This is so great. This is wonderful news.
HZ: I suppose, any of the genders in revue, I'm a little uncomfortable with them.
JOY: Well, I guess this is where you and I, our paths diverge, and I take the winding road into the strippergram forest, searching for elusive woodland hunks to pop out, being granted modesty by strategically-placed fig leaves and branches, and that's just not what you're after.
HZ: It's quite the bucolic scene of male nudity and moss and branches and things.
JOY: Come on!
HZ: Jackie's shivering. It's so cold, this is so wrong. And then fucking Madison is there missing the balls, so she just goes over to the lever and she's like, "I told you to stay home," and dunks Jackie with the lever, which is so horrible. And the teacher who wouldn't let Wallace misthrow balls is just like, "Yeah, whatever, sure." And Veronica has a face of concern. But does she do anything? No.
JOY: You know, Helen, in my elementary school, we had a summer festival thing where our principal was in the dunk tank, and I, some way or another, won the privilege of being the first person to get to throw balls to try to dunk my principal, and I missed all three times. And then I did what Madison did, but in a fun way. But watching Madison do this really made me call into question my fifth grade mentality.
HZ: Isn't the point there that the hierarchy is temporarily suspended or subverted?
JOY: Yes.
HZ: Whereas this, it's someone in a superior position in pretty much every way in society being a real shit to someone else.
JOY: Thank you for making me feel better, Helen.
HZ: Yeah.
JOY: About me, not about this episode.
HZ: Uncle Monte doesn't want Rashard to be consorting with girls in case they're leeches, and hits him in the dick to prove his point.
JOY: Helen, has your uncle ever hit you in the dick?
HZ: I've only met my uncle about eight times, and no, he didn't hit me in the dick. He taught me how to make a compass with a piece of string and a pin.
JOY: That's pretty tight. That's way cooler than hitting your nibling in the dick.
HZ: I don't think I've hit any of my niblings in the dick so far.
JOY: Good on you, Helen.
JOY: Have I told you that my mom used to save birds in the freezer? If a bird would fly into one of our windows and die, she would save it in the freezer for some reason.
HZ: Was she hoping that they would be reborn after three days?
JOY: Possibly? When I was quite small our dog killed a baby raccoon and I was really upset about it, and so then, as a response, my mom had the raccoon taxidermied.
HZ: No!
JOY: For my birthday.
JENNY OWEN YOUNGS: But if you had to choose a favourite Ninja Turtle...
HELEN ZALTZMAN: I don't know what their different personalities are, Jenny.
JENNY OWEN YOUNGS: OK, let me just run it down for you really quick.
HELEN ZALTZMAN: Which one's the Logan and which one's the Duncan?
JENNY OWEN YOUNGS: Right. Exactly. Well, Duncan is sort of the Leonardo. Michelangelo is like Dick. He's like, "Wazzup?" And then Raphael is like Logan because he has a lot of anger issues. And then Donatello, do we have like a recurring super smart person on this show? I guess Mac would be the closest? Mac is Donatello. Cool. Nailed it. And then Keith is like Splinter. And then Mr Echolls is like Shredder. And then all the one episode 09ers are the foot soldiers, the Foot Clan. Cool. Thanks for listening.
HELEN ZALTZMAN: Are all shows truly the same?
JENNY OWEN YOUNGS: All shows are one show.
HELEN ZALTZMAN: It's the same characters, but different shells.
HZ: I have two other reasons that I think account for Veronica's hostility. One is: I think she senses that Jackie is a sexperson. She has already said in the previous episode that she hasn't dated a high school guy since eighth grade. She makes reference to actors she's been out with. She's a sexperson. But I think the true reason she dislikes Jackie is because Jackie also wears tiny jackets.
JOY: Tiny jacket competition. They have to have a tiny jacket-off.
HZ: Who's got the tiniest jacket? And also, Jackie's name is so close to ‘jacket’.
JOY: Wow. Yes. Also really regretting saying 'tiny jacket-off'.
HZ: It's interesting seeing Tessa Thompson in this, given that her career is now stellar.
JOY: Yeah, another person who was in Veronica Mars who is now incredibly successful.
HZ: And I'm happy for her; she's very charismatic, I think, on screen even in this but I feel like she's done a bit of a disservice with the character in this. I think they're not quite sure who Jackie is, because they have just piled all of the styles on her at once. She's wearing elements of five very different outfits at most times.
JOY: She's like a girl group. But like all five of them at a time. Sporty, Ginger, Scary, Baby -
HZ: And Belts.
JOY: Do you think that in this context, pantsing refers to just Butters's pants coming down or him getting fully exposed?
HZ: I'm trying to remember what we would have called it in England; it would have had a different name; pants would definitely unambiguously be undergarments in British English.
JOY: Oh right, so you'd be like, "Oh, he got troused" or something. Sorry if I've offended anyone.
HZ: When you've pantsed people in the past, Jenny, which I'm sure actually I'm sure you've never done because you're a kind person.
JOY: Honestly, I'm not a pantser, but Jess pantses me on the daily.
HZ: She romantically pantses you? And when she does it, is it overpants and underpants?
JOY: Just overpants, and then an impish scurrying away.
HZ: So we should clarify: Jess is your girlfriend.
JOY: Yes.
HZ: She's not your high school bully.
JOY: Or a ghost.
HZ: Veronica's not avoiding Logan today.
JOY: No, even though she's supposed to be I think steering clear from him she can't resist going in for a little no-costume undercover work pretending to still be into it so that she can see what he has to say for himself.
HZ: Yeah, right. We know that she's shitting him, for some reason.
JOY: I'm sorry - "shitting him"?
HZ: Yeah, do you not say that in America?
JOY: Oh, like like she's like lying to them or playing him or something? Like "you gotta be shitting me."
HZ: Right. Exactly. She's shittting him. But he doesn't know he's being shat.
JOY: See, this really starts to fall apart once you start conjugating.
HZ: Does it? You knew what I meant! He is beshat.
HZ: In Vegas, Keith's guest Cheyenne arrives wearing a black dress with charm chains draped over the shoulders. Keith's hotel is quite beige and drab, and also, the TV is angled so you can't watch it in bed. What the fuck? What piece of shit hotel would do this to you? What is the point?
JOY: Yeah, that is cruel and unusual punishment.
HZ: Keith's still kind of in caring dad mode, asking Cheyenne if she's hungry.
KEITH: Are you hungry or anything?
CHEYENNE: I think not having to buy me dinner first is kind of the point. Why don’t you come sit over here with me and relax, okay?
KEITH: Well, maybe we could go sit out on the balcony.
CHEYENNE: You’re still gonna be married on the balcony. Now. I want you to tell me exactly what you want. That one thing you can never get the little woman to do. And we’ll start there.
KEITH: Actually, I’d like to start by talking about Abel Koontz.
HZ: Wow, Keith, that is one hell of a kink. Bet she doesn't get that request often.
JOY: “The little woman just won't discuss Abel Koontz and the Lilly Kane murder with me the way I'd like.”
HZ: In the background of the Echolls living room, there's a cabinet containing many framed photos of Aaron. We're used to that from the set dressing, but also a bunch of awards, including two Oscars.
JOY: Damn, I missed that. What do you think those are for?
HZ: I don't know, because I thought they'd built up Aaron to be quite a shit actor, just doing these crappy action films and sequels.
JOY: I was wondering if - when they they said that when Veronica later says that she got caught making out by the star of Breaking Point and Breaking Point 2, I was wondering if that was supposed to be a Point Break reference, if Aaron was supposed to be a Patrick Swayze type.
HZ: Maybe one of the awards is for Dance Dirty and Dance Dirty 2 then.
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