VMI 1.14 Mars vs Mars transcript
Hear this episode at VMIpod.com/1-14
Content note: Veronica Mars contains heavy themes, and this episode includes storylines concerning suicide, statutory rape, and grooming.
You don't have to break into your doctor's office after hours to realise that there will be spoilers for this episode of Veronica Mars, but there will not be spoilers for subsequent episodes of Veronica Mars.
A LONG TIME AGO, ON VERONICA MARS:
Student Carrie Bishop claims that Mr Rooks, the best teacher at Neptune High, has had sex with her.
But Veronica is determined to prove Mr Rooks innocent! She doesn’t like Carrie and she loves Mr Rooks’s wacky theatrical teacher tricks.
This puts her at odds with Keith all episode - we hate it when the Marses fight! Although we’re with Keith on this one.
Especially because he plays a very good prank on Veronica. The one person who is smarter than her.
Logan needs Veronica to prove that his mother is still alive.
And Veronica pays another visit to Abel Koontz on death row.
Exploding a dye pack into your face, I’m Jenny Owen Youngs
And retiring to Death Valley, I’m Helen Zaltzman
You’re listening to Veronica Mars Investigations Season 1, episode 14: Mars vs Mars.
HZ: I don't like this episode very much, Jenny.
JOY: Man, agree - hard agree. This is difficult, but unfortunately I guess we have to talk about it anyway.
HZ: We cannot skip episode 14. It's not all bad.
JOY: There are a few beautiful shining moments of just really beautiful glory, but they are seeded into an episode that is mostly bleurgh.
HZ: Quite a lot of toxic Veronica in this episode.
JOY: It's not great.
HZ: She does do some good detective work but...
JOY: Yeah.
HZ: This episode picks up right where the previous one left off, so Logan's on Veronica's porch saying that his mother Lynn is not dead. There's no body. The woman who says that she saw Lynn jump off a bridge just wants to get on TV.
JOY: Yeah, he also makes the case that if his mother was going to commit suicide, he believes that she would take sleeping pills and wouldn't want to risk being found, as he puts it, “Bug-eyed and bloated in some shrimp net."
HZ: What a comfort. He also says that her platinum card is missing and that's a clue she's alive. So he wants Veronica to investigate. He really just wants to know that Lynn's okay, it feels like he almost wouldn't want her to come back if she is alive because she had such a rough time with Aaron.
JOY: Yeah. She escaped, and he wants her to be away from his vile father.
HZ: Neptune Lighting Watch: there's some very bright light in the Mars living room. It's twinkling off the pool. It's night and yet this room, which has no lights on that I can see, is very bright thanks to the reflected pool light. What does it mean?
JOY: Maybe Neptune is just a town that defies whatever physics apply to the distribution of light.
HZ: It’s one of the sunniest parts of the USA, but you wouldn't necessarily know it. Off to school and... I can't with this, Jenny.
JOY: Is this supposed to be cool? Maybe if I was a teenager in high school and I measured this - whatever's happening here - up against normal regular average teacher behaviour, maybe I would think it was cool, but this is pretty painful to watch. I'm embarrassed for this teacher - played by Adam Scott! I am however impressed - let's highlight the positive where we can - that this entire classroom full of high school students can do the ‘We Will Rock You’ stomp clap beat, while simultaneously saying “booga booga booga” and “awoooga” in ways that seemed to have nothing to do with the rhythm of what they're tapping while maintaining that stomping and clapping at the continued pace, which I think is impressive.
HZ: Maybe they could all be jazz musicians.
JOY: Maybe!
MR ROOKS: Who will reign supreme? Will it be the Age of Enlightenment Rock Stars?
AGE OF ENLIGHTMENT GROUP: Ooga-booga-ooga-booga!
MR ROOKS: Or will it be the Children of the Industrial Revolution?
CHILDREN OF THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION GROUP: Awooga!
HZ: Did you have any cool teachers, listeners, that were prone to theatrical devices like this? Because I only really see them on TV like Gwyneth Paltrow when she plays the substitute teacher in Glee, and she just does elaborate costumed songs, as far as I can tell. When do people actually have time to learn something? Because they're spending so much time in this just clicking their fingers. Although I suppose it would get the five facts per lesson to stick in your mind. Everyone seems to be loving it.
JOY: Yeah, they seem really into it. Bleurgh!!
HZ: Well, I say that everyone seems to be loving it one person is not and that is Carrie Bishop played by Leighton Meester, who became Blair Waldorf in Gossip Girl a couple of years after this.
JOY: Lending credence to your developing theory that Abel Koontz is Gossip Girl!
HZ: Prove me wrong.
JOY: I can't.
HZ: It's more plausible than it being Dan Humphreys. And so this makes for an awkward moment.
MR ROOKS: Two more answers. Uh-oh. I see someone hiding back there, trying to disappear completely. Carrie Bishop. Sock it to me, baby!
CARRIE: The answer is I'm not pregnant. So you can quit dodging my calls and you can keep your money to take care of it. And while we're at it, here's your key back. I won't be needing it anymore.
HZ: I was impressed that when Carrie Bishop threw the key to Mr. Rooks, he caught it - because he must be quite distracted, to have this accusation levelled at him right in the middle of his stamping tapping performance.
JOY: Yeah… I feel like... ugh. Helen! How will we get through it?
HZ: Okay, let's just say that every minute or so of this podcast there is a tacit “urghh” emitted by both of us.
JOY: Yes.
HZ: Titles! And still in the classroom but everyone has cleared out except for Veronica and Mr. Rooks. Veronica, always a guys’ gal, asks Mr. Rooks if he's okay.
JOY: This it just feels weird from the start.
HZ: It does.
JOY: As we continue to watch this episode, we see that she like he's one of the very few teachers that she really likes at Neptune High and she also does not like Carrie Bishop. So I guess it kind of makes sense? But it still is so weird, to me, that a student would hang back and talk to a teacher and be like, “Are you okay?” Although, Veronica has been the object of various slanderous things being tossed around, not just by Carrie Bishop, but including Carrie Bishop. Veronica has had a lot of lot of slanderous things spread around about her, so maybe she's relating to him on that level.
HZ: Maybe - and interestingly, what Mr. Rooks says in this scene is that he's never touched Carrie Bishop; he's never seen her out of the class; but it doesn't matter because the rumour mill will have spread it everywhere already. All of that is true. And he's worried about and he's scared his teaching career, all he ever wanted, will be over. And then he has to go and work at the Department of Parks and Recreation.
ROOKS: This is all I ever wanted to do. And it’s over.
VERONICA: Not if I can help it.
HZ: She's choosing teams early in this episode.
JOY: Very early! And that just seems unlike her but again, maybe it's because of her history with Carrie and others.
HZ: It does seem unlike her, though, because she's usually kind of watchful and slightly cynical of every party.
JOY: Yeah yeah. We go to the outdoor lunch area, and a gaggle of young women start singing the Police song ‘Don't Stand So Close To Me’.
SINGING STUDENTS: “Temptation, frustration, so bad it makes him cry.”
JOY: And I have a few bones to pick and a couple of things to share. And here they are. Are you ready?
HZ: Yes.
JOY: Somehow these three girls just know all the lyrics to ‘Don't Stand So Close To Me’ and have prepared a little routine, I guess, because I say ‘prepared’ because they actually sing the first half of the first verse and then the second half of the second verse as one full thing. Are these the girls that are called upon when a situation like this arises at Neptune High and they have one piece that they've prepared? I also took a peek at the wiki article about this song specifically and discovered a variety of things which displeased me and here they are. Number one: after being criticised for rhyming ‘cough’ with ‘Nabokov’, Sting replied, “I've used that terrible, terrible rhyme technique a few times. Technically, it's called a feminine rhyme, where it's so appalling, it's almost humorous. You don't normally get those types of rhymes in pop music and I'm glad." First of all, rhyming cough with Nabokov is tight and would be celebrated in this modern era. Second of all, the way that this type of rhyming has been named as the “feminine rhyme” because “it's so appalling It's almost humorous." How fucking dare you, sir, how dare you and Sting and also the people who are responsible? Actually, Helen, do you know something, I don't know about this, since this is kind of in your realm?
HZ: Okay, so what I learned when studying poetry and stuff is that masculine rhyme was when the emphasis on the final syllable, so “donk"; a feminine rhyme is when it's on the penultimate syllable, so like “der-donk”. So if a line ended with “egg", that would be a masculine rhyme, and if it ended with “sausage", it would be a feminine rhyme.
JOY: The emphasis isn't on the rhyming syllable.
HZ: Well, in a feminine rhyme, it still has to rhyme but it's just the stress is on the penultimate syllable, not the final one. And my problem is I don't know why these things are being given gendered terms, but that is just the fucking society we've inherited.
JOY: Isn't that always the question, Helen?
HZ: That's another thing to hate about this song, Jenny, but it's not really about this song. It's just about the society in which this song was begotten.
JOY: Yes.
HZ: What else angers you about it?
JOY: Something else that angers me about it as I was reading this quote from Sting on the Wikipedia page for the song and he says, “I wanted to write a song about sexuality in the classroom." Interjection - WHY? “I’d done teaching practice at secondary schools and been through the business of having 15-year-old girls fancying me and me really fancying them. How I kept my hands off them, I don't know. Then there was my love for Lolita, which I think is a brilliant novel, but I was looking for the key for 18 months and then suddenly there it was. That opened the gates and out it came: the teacher, the open page, the virgin, the rape in the car, getting the sack, Nabokov, all that." Ergghhhh!!! Just leave it where it is.
HZ: Were you aware of teachers having affairs with students at your school, Jenny? Because I do remember this happening quite a bit, and in the 1990s I'm not sure people were fired for it. They would just go off and work at a different school.
JOY: Ah, jeez. I think I think there was something at my high school like a few years after I had graduated, but nothing that I was like around for.
HZ: Yeah, it was not uncommon at mine.
JOY: That is alarming. ‘Not uncommon’ seems like a very bad adjective for this situation.
HZ: People have kind of hushed up inappropriate sexual behaviour, or worse, from teachers for a long time. And maybe Veronica is being a little awful about this case because she has been raised in a society that would do that.
JOY: Entirely possible. I'm certainly willing to entertain it. In a continued effort to avoid talking about this episode as much as possible, can I tell you one more thing about ‘Don't Stand so Close To Me’ by the Police?
HZ: You can't put it off forever, Jenny.
JOY: Sting was asked to sing something on Mark Knopfler's ‘Money for Nothing’, which I believe ended up on a Dire Straits album. You may recall that song:
CLIP: ‘Money for Nothing’ by Dire Straits
JOY: And Sting is in the background singing:
CLIP: Sting sings "I want my MTV."
HZ: Oh, I was thinking that sounded a lot like… So it is not just similar. It is!
JOY: He alleges that he accidentally recycled that melody and what that resulted in after it was after either Sting or Mark Knopfler was talking about it in a print media interview. Then, once one of them had said it aloud in the press, like, “Oops, Mark Knopfler reused this Police melody," that's when Sting’s lawyers came for Dire Straits's publishing, and made Sting one of only two people ever credited with a co-write on a Dire Straits album who was not a not a member of Dire Straits. Hmmmmm! Anything else we should talk about, Helen?
HZ: Maybe we should just go home now? Let's just call it now. Veronica, remember her? Veronica somewhat sourly relates to Wallace that Carrie has had a long and storied reign as the gossip Queen of Neptune, foreshadowing Leighton Meester's reign on Gossip Girl! Which Kristen Bell narrates!
CLIP: Gossip Girl: “Hey Upper East Siders, Gossip Girl here. And I have the biggest news ever.”
HZ: Yeah. Kristin Bell is the omniscient voice of Gossip Girl. Let me tell you Leighton Meester is brilliant in it. And also, I don't know whether it would hold up if you went to watch it now.
JOY: Well, you know what never gets old? Veronica asking Wallace for a favour!
HZ: He doesn't even need to be asked now; he just knows, he can feel this chill wind seeping into his bones. She wants him to borrow Carrie’s permanent file from the office. I'm surprised Wallace is still working there. He's like, “Can you just transfer me to the school kitchens or something? So I don't have to work for Veronica.”
JOY: No, then she'd be like, “Wallace, I need you to borrow some tater tots for me," and that would be every day.
HZ: Then Veronica grabs Duncan who is wearing beige today! Maybe they think by 14 episodes of the show we know which one the blue one is supposed to be?
JOY: Ha! Or maybe they just made a mistake.
HZ: Maybe Duncan wandered into the wrong section of the wardrobe. Veronica extracts from Duncan which doctor he goes to, for reasons. And Duncan's like, “Well, it's kind of expensive."
JOY: And Veronica says she has insurance but he looks he looks dubious like even when she said it's cool which I thought was funny. Like maybe this doctor is so expensive that he doesn't even take insurance; you have to be a billionaire to go there.
HZ: Yeah, and there’s probably billionaire doctors who don't want to treat the poor in case they catch poor.
JOY: Oh my god.
HZ: Wallace, of course, gets Carrie’s file for Veronica that day. She leafs through it in plain sight, interrupted by Logan, anxious for news of his Mom of which there is none, but Veronica does say that she'll get a text if anyone uses Lynn's credit card. Also says that the eyewitness who is currently all over the airwaves talking about seeing Lynn jump off the bridge will be giving a statement tomorrow at the sheriff's department.
VERONICA: I'll drop by; see if she's up for a chat.
LOGAN: Well, I'll go with you.
VERONICA: Actually, despite popular opinion, you really can't beat the truth out of someone.
HZ: Logan's got a bright blue pen behind his ear. I wonder why. Little trace of Duncan?
JOY: Yeah, maybe they just dressed each other this morning. They're wearing matching underwear at the bottom and then Duncan borrowed all of Logan's brown clothes and Duncan gave Logan a blue pen. Couple of things: is there anything more satisfying then Veronica doing yet another like bit of Veronica voiceover as she's reading Carrie’s file and then gets interrupted by Logan in real life?
HZ: Is there anything more satisfying? Other episodes, I would say.
JOY: Okay, sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Is there anything more satisfying in this episode? A couple things that I can think of. Well, anyway, I enjoyed that moment.
HZ: OK. I’m glad there was something to keep you going.
JOY: Yeah, I really have to look for the positive again where I can find it. Logan also says he'll know if she's lying and Veronica won't - and Veronica just says like, “Okay." We just learned in the last episode that Keith Mars trained Veronica to be able to tell if people are lying. So what is this about?
HZ: I think Veronica's just like, give it to Logan. He has psychological needs.
JOY: Yeah. Okay.
HZ: She then catches up to Carrie and says that she's gonna prove that she's lying, which is a great look on Veronica, isn't it?
VERONICA: Hey, Carrie, wait up!
CARRIE: Why? Did you want the chance to tell me how much you admired me for my brave stand?
VERONICA: I want to give you a chance to recant before I prove you're lying.
CARRIE: Why do you even care?
VERONICA: There aren't many great teachers. Mr Rooks is one of them.
CARRIE: Yeah, if you can get past the part where he seduces his students.
VERONICA: Hey, Carrie? This is me, Veronica. I know you.
CARRIE: You're so naive.
VERONICA: Yeah, that's me, naive. Mr Rooks called your parents in for a parent-teacher conference last September. Hardly seems like something an illicit boyfriend would do.
CARRIE: Believe what you want. Never cared what you thought of me before, no reason to start now.
JOY: Veronica says it’s because she likes Mr. Rooks as a teacher.
HZ: Not fucking good enough!
JOY: Not fucking good enough. She also mentions that Mr. Rooks called Carrie's parents in for a parent teacher conference, which she alleges is a weird thing for an illicit boyfriend to do, which does add up.
HZ: Yeah, but that conference happened last September and it's now like late January, February, so that gives them some time to start a thing and have a pregnancy scare. Carrie says, “Believe what you want - never cared what you thought of me before. No reason to start now." She's kind of got the attitude of Veronica in the pilot.
JOY: True.
HZ: But interesting twist: Keith has been hired by Kerry's parents to investigate Mr. Rooks, they want him fired.
JOY: Conflict of Mars interests.
HZ: Veronica at Mars HQ is livid.
KEITH: Calm down. What are you so upset about?
VERONICA: Mr Rooks is an amazing teacher, one of the few good teachers at Neptune High. And you're just going to join the witch hunt to get him fired?
KEITH: I'm just running a background check. I'm not organising a stoning in the town square.
VERONICA: For the record, I can't help you. I've already volunteered to work with him. You know how I dread going to that school every day? His class is one of the few things that I look forward to.
KEITH: Well, I'm sorry. This is my business, honey. It's what I do. Besides, the girl deserves to be heard.
VERONICA: No, actually, she doesn't. She's a liar and a gossip and a manipulator.
KEITH: What makes you think that?
VERONICA: I just do.
KEITH: Well, I can't drop a case based on a feeling you have, I'm sorry.
HZ: Setting up the Mars vs Mars dynamic that makes this episode so sad on top of all the other things that make it sad and shit. But we do find out why Veronica hates Carrie in a flashback in the toilet in its pre-office days.
JOY: Oh my gosh, yes, before it was remodelled.
HZ: Carrie and her friend Susan Knight are washing their hands at the sink. Veronica is eavesdropping in a cubicle. By the way, Veronica is wearing Converse, and either Carrie or Susan is wearing some weird, very tiny kitten heeled slippers, where they look like they're supposed to be comfy shoes but they're rendered very impractical by an absolutely tiny stiletto heel. Why are kitten heels?
JOY: Why are kitten heels? Also Susan Knight is definitely without a doubt the name of a woman who writes mysteries targeted at women who have retired to Florida. Or Death Valley.
HZ: Also notice: Carrie Bishop, Susan Knight, Mr. Rooks. What are you getting from this, Jenny?
JOY: Oh my God! There's a game I've heard of called chess.
HZ: And a musical. So what Carrie and Susan are talking about is DunkVonica, who evidently have since broken up.
CARRIE: I’m surprised they lasted as long as they have.
SUSAN: I mean, of all of the girls in the school Duncan could have gone out with, Veronica Mars? I mean, how insane is that?
CARRIE: He's out of his mind, that's for sure.
SUSAN: She really got her claws into him. You know, I actually sort of feel sorry for the guy. I mean, you know all she's after is his money.
CARRIE: No, I mean, he's literally crazy. Like loony-bin crazy.
SUSAN: What are you talking about?
CARRIE: Well, you know how Brian's brother is a resident at the hospital? And Brian told Ashley that last week, Duncan was brought in, kicking and screaming, foaming at the mouth, calling out Veronica's name. It took like three orderlies to get him in a straitjacket.
HZ: Veronica comes out, washes her hands. She doesn't have good zingers yet, in her days of the wig. But what I found curious about this is that Veronica has not voiceovered in this series about the things she learns in the scene, which took place long before the series began. Because it seemed like it was a surprise to her that Duncan was having some mental health issues. And yet, she's already had some clues, even if they're from these unreliable people.
JOY: Yeah, I'm sure that like when this happened, she just filed it away as Carrie and Susan being trash and didn't think about it again, until suddenly Carrie is once again front and centre in her consciousness.
HZ: In the Sheriff's department back in the present day, Veronica helps Logan eavesdrop on the witness via a bug, and the witness is talking to Cliff who's pretending to be from the Weekly World News. Oh, bless Cliff. How did this get set up? Was Veronica like “Cliff, I need a favour," and he's like, “It's not even your birthday, but okay."
JOY: Yeah. What does her IOU book look like at this point?
HZ: Very imbalanced. Leo's back at the Sheriff's department and he is pissed off with Veronica. She's like, “I need to tell you something confidential. So we're going to stand in the middle of this busy office but I'm going to move you a foot that way."
VERONICA: Deputy.
LEO: What do you want, Veronica?
VERONICA: A chance to explain.
LEO: What's to explain? You used me. I get it.
VERONICA: Lilly Kane was my best friend.
LEO: Listen, I know all about your dad and the murder investigation -
VERONICA: No, you don't. You know the story that everyone else knows.
LEO: A guy confessed. He said he did it.
VERONICA: Did you know that the head of security at Kane Software was the one that made the tip call that got Abel Koontz arrested? Did you know that your own crime scene photos make it impossible for Abel to have left the Kane house with a pair of Lilly's shoes that they found on his houseboat? Did you know there's a traffic ticket that proves that Lilly's time of death is three hours off?
LEO: How do you know all this?
VERONICA: I know all of this because I have done everything I could to get to the truth, including using you, and I'm really sorry about that. But I used you, then fell for you, not the other way around.
LEO: You fell for me?
JOY: Every single thing Veronica just said just flies out of Leo's head. And he's like, "You fell for me?"
HZ: The smirk goes right back on his face.
JOY: Yeah, Leo! LeoVonica, VeReo, VeO, whatever, I want it.
HZ: VLeoNica. I also noticed that there's a lot more camera movement than usual in this episode. Maybe they got someone from ER in.
JOY: Oh, wow, I did not notice that.
HZ: It's a lot more visually energetic. And then we go to what I'm going to call Rook’s Nook.
JOY: Ah, but also urgh.
HZ: Wherever it is that Mr. Rook lives. He's got a pool and his little daughter Olivia is playing next to it with a remote controlled thing. And Veronica is introduced to her. And she's like, “I'm one of your dad's students," and then gets no response from the child.
JOY: Do you think she's like, "I've met a lot of my father's students. Move along please."
HZ: Totally. Everyone knows that small children playing silent, and will do whatever you tell them. So when Mr. Rooks is like, “Go and do some colouring," off she goes.
JOY: Is that how that works? Interesting.
HZ: It's also the weekend, Veronica is at her teacher’s home on the weekend. It seems like a lot, she probably could have called.
JOY: It's weird. It's weird. It's weird. It's weird. "I just thought I'd drop by."
HZ: She tries to find out from Rooks about the parent teacher meeting with the Bishops. And he's like, “I’m not sure that's your business." And she says, “Well, there's a PI working for them," and he says, “The parents just called the conference because I gave Carrie because I gave Carrie a C on her midterm paper and she thought the grade would keep her out of Cornell." Whatevs.
JOY: Yeah, ugh. Away! Away away.
HZ: There's going to be a school board hearing to save his career. At the Mars HQ Veronica is cold shouldering Keith and Keith tells her that Rooks is a bad egg. <sings> Bad eggs! <guitar solo>
CLIP: Jenny Owen Youngs sings “Bad Eggs” from Buffering the Vampire Slayer episode 2.12
JOY: Wow, it's the crossover episode.
HZ: Deep cut from Jenny Owen Young's musical back catalogue. It's very good - best song about bad eggs you'll hear.
JOY: Oh, thank you.
HZ: Keith has read Carrie's diary, which is very detailed about the assignations with Mr. Rooks.
KEITH: Carrie kept a very detailed diary of her affair with him. It's full of times and dates. She recorded the very date of a weekend she spent in a hotel with him when her parents were out of town. She writes about him taking her to a fancy restaurant in San Diego after she won the District Extemporaneous Speaking Competition.
VERONICA: So? That doesn't prove anything. I could write down that I met Kid Rock every weekend at the Hedonism Lodge for sensual massage and smoothies, but that doesn't make it true.
HZ: Was Kid Rock a more fun reference then than now?
JOY: Yes, Kid Rock was just fun back then, he hadn't like whipped out the Confederate flag vibe yet.
HZ: But Keith has cross-checked Rooks's credit card history and the charges on it match things from the diary, like restaurants and whatnot. Later, Veronica is on the phone booking an appointment at Duncan's doctor, and in front of her is a can of what looks like Sunkist but has been cleverly Greeked so it's called “Skist." And then in the background, I suppose also important to note that Logan is sort of dithering about whether to come into the Mars offices or not.
JOY: Yep. Yep.
HZ: And he says, "I usually avoid buildings with stained glass."
JOY: Oh my God. He's such a Spike.
So Logan found an article in a different tabloid in which a woman claims that she saw Lynn Echolls get into a van and drive away from the bridge laughing and having fun. And he wants Veronica to follow up on this.
HZ: And Veronica very swiftly, because she's such a good detective, finds this woman Sondra Bolan - she pretends to be from the National Instigator tabloid, and she's like “I've got follow up questions on your story.”
JOY: “Can we meet? Right now?”
HZ: "Tuesday's no good - newspaper business. Yeah, everyone does me favours, it'll be fine. Oh, yeah, right now will be great. That is convenient." So we go to a cafe, is it the same place as where they do karaoke in Episode 12?
JOY: It seems like there's only one cafe in all of Neptune.
HZ: But it's got glass bricks, and it's got bonkers lighting so it fits right in with the Neptune aesthetic. Sondra is like, "I didn't get paid for the tabloid interview. I just wanted people to know the truth, and not listen to that other person who's lying on every talk show that they saw Lynn die."
JOY: Yeah, but Sondra quickly reveals that she is an Echolls superfan. And the last thing she says is:
SONDRA: I don't know why anyone could ever think she'd kill herself. She is the luckiest woman in the world.
JOY: So this lady loves Aaron Echolls.
HZ: She's got a scrapbook full of both Echollses’ things, and she's like “Lynn got into a van that was from The Pursuit Of Happiness, the film on which she and Aaron met!" Not ideal. And you can just feel how Logan's hope must be rapidly evaporating as he watches from a nearby table.
JOY: But it's not all bad, Helen, because as he leaves - he kind of like huffs out to stand in the foyer - and Veronica follows him and says, “I would have held out hope too, I get it, don't be embarrassed for being hopeful that your mom is still alive or whatever.” Logan storms out, and bumps into who's entering, but one Weevil Navarro and he says, “Hey, manners, Opie,” and then he looks at Veronica and says "What? Did he lose a puka shell"?
WEEVIL: Hey! Manners, Opie! What, did he lose a puka shell?
VERONICA: No. Just the last ounce of hope that his mother was still alive.
HZ: Unfortunately it's not time for even quality jokes like this from Weevil. Weevil looks a little regretful for making one.
JOY: Okay, I'm not gonna let Veronica rain on my beautiful Weevillian parade on this day.
HZ: You don't get much Weevil this episode.
JOY: But what I do get counts!
HZ: At the Mars home, Keith is trying to breach this divide between Marses - he's made lasagne. Keith's lasagne secret is double the cheese!
JOY: Now, would that make better lasagne?
HZ: I think it really depends on what kind of cheese you're using. Are you using it for texture, or flavour? What else have you got in it? It could overbalance a lasagne. Keith is pity-cooking because he has bad news for Veronica. Mr. Rooks was fired from his previous job at a private school because of some complaints from parents of two girls, which is all Keith can say because the file is sealed. And Veronica wants to see Carrie's journal, and Keith says she can't, which means Veronica has to try and get it through naughty means. And so she's at the office, pacing back and forth by the safe, and I noticed there are so many plants in the fish tank, it is full. Barely any swimming room for the at least three living fish in there.
JOY: But you know, when you're a fish and you have a limited zone in which to live, it's probably nice to have varied foliage.
HZ: There's just so much foliage, though, how can they get any swimming done?
JOY: Maybe they use them as like obstacles. Maybe they have competitions where they try to swirl around a given stalk of seaweed really fast.
HZ: They seem very active. At least the fish are having a good time.
JOY: Yeah. Nice to see the fish, haven't seen the fish in a minute.
HZ: And also, this is the best scene, I think.
JOY: Oh my God. You know, she does the whole thing: she finds the combo, she gets into the safe, she opens the box, and then kerblam! The dye pack explodes in her face and we're all happy this happens because it is enjoyable to watch. However.
HZ: And also because we don't want Keith to have been stupid enough to make this safe easy to crack by his daughter, when he knows that she's going to try and get in it every other day.
JOY: Definitely, but the way that he's been behaving towards her has all been kind of like from the angle of like, “I can tell this guy is bad and I don't want your heart to be broken when you find out the truth about him” - he's been very gentle and sweet and the lasagne and the whole thing, and then, this. But maybe this is a Mars love language, maybe spy pranks are how they really show each other they care.
HZ: You've got to respect it. Because although Keith is trying to be quite conciliatory with her, and also trying to save her from hurt, she's being a real tool this episode. And so this is a language she can understand - a face full of ink. And then there's this lovely shot of them both reflected in the shaving mirror while she's cleaning herself off and he just creeps up behind her to smug away.
KEITH: Hey, honey. What have you been up to?
VERONICA: Tell me where to put your father-of-the-year trophy, 'cause there's some place I'd like to put it.
KEITH: Wow. Good thing I didn't go with a bear trap.
VERONICA: This is not funny. I need to see that diary. She's lying. I know it. I can feel it with every fibre of my being.
KEITH: Honey, you don't have to get all blue in the face.
VERONICA: You're patronising me?
KEITH: To be fair, I am your patron.
HZ: I enjoy it so much. Keith just seems very amused. And when Keith's happy, I'm happy.
JOY: Hell yeah.
HZ: But Veronica does get a little win out of the scene. She does not convince Keith to let her read the diary but she does convince him to let her see the dates and times of the things. And she's also like, “Do you want to be responsible for taking a good man down destroying his reputation? Can you possibly relate??"
JOY: Yeah, this is a strong point for her to make.
HZ: Although Keith didn't possibly sexually coerce or assault underage people.
JOY: No no no no.
HZ: His enemy was one of the most rich and powerful people in the town, the dynamic is a little different.
JOY: Yes.
HZ: At school the next day, Veronica comes out the school office, probably just stealing some shit bugging some shit, you know? And she peers on to the trophy cabinet where the other week she did her display of cameras, and she sees a black and white picture of some sports people.
JOY: But never mind!
HZ: You just see it for a brief moment. Throw it out of your mind.
JOY: Yeah, never mind that photo, no time for that photo, because here's Weevil again, and do you know what he's wearing, Helen?
HZ: It is your favourite henley, Jenny!
JOY: It's my favourite henley! And it still looks great.
HZ: And also here are some jokes - Veronica and he are exchanging some jokes.
WEEVIL: If you're looking for my trophy, it's back by auto shop.
VERONICA: A lube job? Or can you medal in stealing hubcaps?
WEEVIL: Is this 1970? Rims, baby.
VERONICA: So you got a trophy for a rim job?
JOY: But what Weevil really has to say is that he heard that a freshman has been saying he has proof that Lynn jumped and he's going to make millions and Veronica's like, “Weevil, please find out who this freshman is. I would be ever so grateful."
HZ: She is running a lot of people in her operation. She also refers to Deep Throat in the Watergate style, not the pornographic film, and Weevil is like, “I'm not going to touch that one." So then Veronica goes and asks Mr. Rooks why he was fired from his last job and it's all a bit flirty and gross. Like every scene between them, frankly.
VERONICA: Can I ask you something?
MR ROOKS: Shoot.
VERONICA: Why were you fired from your last job?
MR ROOKS: How on earth do you know?
VERONICA: I just do.
MR ROOKS: Wow. Maybe I should give more credence to the teacher's lounge gossip. Colleagues said you were... unique. Gifted. Unsettling?
VERONICA: I was hoping for delightful, but what can you do? So...
MR ROOKS: My firing, yeah. It was an all girls’ school on the conservative side. I had the temerity to suggest US imperialism wasn't necessarily a good thing. They thought I was trying to turn their daughters into little beret-wearing, clove-smoking Bolsheviks.
VERONICA: Were you?
MR ROOKS: Nyet.
HZ: So Veronica goes off to pester Carrie, who's at her locker. And Carrie is too weary and too wise for this shit.
JOY: Aha - "I remember when I was in love with him too," she says.
HZ: Oof. And also Carrie points out that she is taking a real hit for this. Like it's not making her life easier.
JOY: Yeah, she's having a tough time. It's not making her any more popular.
HZ: But here the tables also turn; that photo Veronica spotted earlier, she has already managed to do some detective fact-matching.
VERONICA: You said you spent the night in a hotel with Mr Rooks on April 23rd but there's a problem with that story, isn't there?
CARRIE: Why don't you tell me? It's obvious you're dying to.
VERONICA: All right. The problem with that story is that you were at an overnight track meet in Sacramento that weekend. You were part of the winning 1,600 metre relay. People say you're fast.
HZ: She does also sex-shame her because she says “People say you're fast."
JOY: Yeah, what the hell, Veronica, you're better than this!
HZ: Veronica’s always shaming sex-havers. And just because a teenage girl is sexual doesn't mean she can't be a victim of sexual assault. Alright, Veronica? So shut up. And I feel like you should be more sympathetic to that.
JOY: The one important thing that we do get out of this conversation that is neutral and useful is that Carrie says his sheets are black silk and his mood music is side two of Tattoo You by the Rolling Stones. Just hang on to that for future use. And also - side two?
HZ: Very specific.
JOY: I just feel like vinyl had not made its true comeback in 2004 and cassettes were long gone.
HZ: I think Mr. Rooks could be the kind of guy who'd be like, “I've got it on vinyl. It just sounds better. I know they've done blind tests where people couldn't tell the difference between vinyl and MP3, but I was one of the ones that could.”
JOY: Hmmm, yes.
HZ: Veronica is doing some good detective work. Because she is cross referencing a lot of the information that she has, but she also is simultaneously ruining my enjoyment of that by being terrible. Off she is now to Duncan's doctors, what's she doing here? How much is this appointment going to cost her?
JOY: Well, it's definitely going to cost her some more like quality of person - some integrity - points. She's there to get into Duncan's personal medical file so she can... for some reason she feels entitled to know what kind of medication he's taking?
HZ: Yep. And the way that she does this is she hides under the restroom sink as the nurse closes up the doctor’s offices at the end of the day - she very smartly got the last appointment of the day. Then she goes to the filing cabinet, which isn't locked. She finds Duncan's records; she photocopies them; and when she goes to put them back, she sees the Abel Koontz's file is right behind Duncan's. Irresistible!
JOY: Irresistible.
HZ: You know Veronica loves a file, an ill gotten file.
JOY: They're no fun if you just get handed them from the appropriate authority. And she almost gets caught! She almost gets gets caught, but she thinks fast and she gets back into that gown and she's like, “Oh, doctors, they're always letting you wait around in their examination rooms half naked in your medical gown." So that's what she jumps back into.
HZ: Got to admire the quick thinking. And the cleaner does not question it. Urgh, Mr. Rooks's hearing. I bet you enjoyed this tremendously. Jenny?
JOY: No.
HZ: And annoyingly, again, Mr. Rooks has not told many lies in the scene. He says Carrie's a solid B student who needed an A. It's not great motivation for her to ruin his career and the rest of her schooling life, to be honest. And then she testifies and talks about how things got started with Mr. Rooks: he gave her rides home from mock United Nations. Did you ever do that Jenny? It's called Model United Nations in Britain. I did do it.
JOY: No, I think we called it model UN, too, in New Jersey, but I did not. That was not a thing I did.
HZ: Romances did blossom at Model United Nations. It was quite a hotbed - but not between staff, just between delegations.
JOY: Right, right. Just between like...
HZ: Between like Liberia and France.
JOY: Hot, hot and you know, this guy, I can't - how is he surviving? How is he not sweating through his shirt when he must be recognising these details? Even though they didn't happen with Carrie, it's very specific.
HZ: Yeah, right? Exactly. Or maybe he's just maybe he just thinks, “Well, she's lying," and therefore it's easy for him to be behaving innocently because he doesn't have to lie. Carrie describes how they would talk intimately and then they got into more physical stuff, and then he dumped her when she thought she was pregnant. And then she read some text messages from Mr. Rooks.
CARRIE: He sent me text messages all the time. April 9th: “Let's meet for tutoring. Clothing optional.” April 14th: “I miss your scent. Call me.” April 29th: “Come to school without your underwear. You'll be rewarded.”
JESSICA: They're addressed to SK.
CARRIE: He used to call me Sweet Knees. He always wanted me to wear knee socks.
JOY: Make it stop Helen!
HZ: Also, “Sweet Knees." This is Carrie's invention, but he's just about shit enough for it to seem plausible. And then to prove that Mr. Rook sent those messages, the Jessica who is running the hearing does the call back and his phone rings. Rooks, turn your phone off for the hearing! Basic manners.
JOY: Yeah, also, I can't remember 100% of what text messaging was like in 2004, but was there a callback feature in your text messaging inbox? I don't remember that.
HZ: don't remember either. Possibly.
JOY: I bet people will let us know on Twitter and reference Gone with the Wind - how did they text in Gone With The Wind?
HZ: “Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn! <laughing emoji> <aubergine emoji> <raindrops>." Veronica has an idea and she asks Vice Principal Clemmons if she can borrow his cell - and this is the least realistic thing, suspend your disbelief: he lends it to her, despite knowing what she's like and not trusting her at all.
JOY: Bananas.
HZ: Off she goes to commit some mischief. While he testifies, Veronica returns. She whispers briefly in Mr. Rooks’s ear, and he asks Jessica to check her cell phone.
MR ROOKS: Now, just check and see if you have messages.
JESSICA: I have three new messages.
MR ROOKS: Can you read ‘em out loud?
JESSICA: The first one says: “True pirates share their booty”. The second: “I'll be your little spoon”. And finally: “Vice principals make the best lovers”.
JOY: This is such trash. Could you imagine this happening? Could you check your phone? Oh, you have three messages - could you read them out loud? So bananas.
HZ: It feels like Veronica is going for a magnificent courtroom scene in the style of Legally Blonde or My Cousin Vinny.
JOY: Right.
HZ: This is not it. And he's like, look how easy it is to create false texts on someone's cell phone in early 2005, which we are. I feel like this is not enough proof for them to throw out this case. Because they also have the diary evidence.
JOY: Has the diary evidence been entered into this hearing?
HZ: Who knows? Mr. Rooks is continuing as a teacher; Carrie looks very sick at this news. And Veronica goes to Mr Rooks's place that evening.
JOY: Veronica!
HZ: He's just at home eating two pizzas by himself.
JOY: We've all been there, alright?
HZ: He's celebrating, and Veronica's like, “Okay, just one slice. I have this newspaper work thing." She's recycling the excuse that she gave to Sondra Bolan there. So, presumably she wants a get out. It's a bit like getting a friend to call you when you're like 40 minutes into a date. And then Veronica, because she's the worst this episode, she looks around the living room and says:
VERONICA: Nice. You must have a gay friend.
HZ: It's like Sheriff Lamb is channelling himself through Veronica.
JOY: Oh my god. Maybe Veronica is just possessed this episode
HZ:Could be, maybe. Maybe it's just Mr. Rooks's subtle grooming has addled her mind I don't know. But then things change. Veronica says “Can I use your bathroom?" and then what does she see?
JOY: Black satin sheets - and then wafting in from the common area, from the living room area. She hears...
HZ: Is that Mick Jagger I smell?
JOY: Oh my God. And we're like “urgh” and she's like “no” and we're like, “yeah, buddy."
HZ: Yeah, get your shit together. She flees the scene. In the middle of the busy school media room is the place she chooses to Google Duncan's prescription for Oxcarbazepine, an epilepsy med with the side effect of blackouts and memory loss. Do it on your laptop at home, Veronica, you...
JOY: Honestly.
HZ: Because then of course Duncan turns up, and luckily he's stupid and swallows her lie that she's googling herself and she swiftly covers up his file that's just right next to her with his name on in massive letters.
JOY: Just do it at home, girl.
HZ: Then Duncan comes in handy at least because Veronica wants to see last year's newspapers to discover who won the District Extemporaneous Speaking Competition. Duncan's like, "Er, why?" Veronica says “I want to know if the winner had sweet knees." Why Veronica, you're just amusing yourself?
JOY: Yeah, this is unnecessary. Duncan's having enough trouble just getting by.
HZ: Yeah. Like if you already worried that Duncan is having periods where he doesn't know what's real and what's not, why are you doing this to him?
JOY: Truly.
HZ: But apart from that, Veronica: good detective work. And then she calls for the Knight family information and goes to Susan Knight’s house and Susan Knight, formerly seen in the toilet -
JOY: ... is pregnant!
HZ: - answers the door. It's lucky she answers to door to Veronica, isn't it? Fancy that.
JOY: And she says, “Veronica Mars?" and we all drink and we're like, “Thank God we can drink now."
HZ: Drink a sad shot of milk.
JOY: Oh! Unnecessary, Helen.
HZ: Sorry. She says she's been disowned by her parents for not divulging who the father of her baby is because she didn't want her parents to press charges for statutory rape. But she's still living at their address because that's what Veronica found out from her phone call to the directory inquiries or whatever you call it in America.
JOY: Yeah, 411 maybe?
HZ: So have they disowned her but in the same house? I don't know.
JOY: Unclear.
HZ: So this is how we learn that Carrie has been lying, but she has just been recounting everything that happened to Susan, because she's so angry all this stuff that happened to Susan with no consequence to Mr. Rooks. But lots of consequences to Carrie. And Susan's like, "But everyone's really supportive of Carrie, aren't they?"
JOY: Oh Carrie! It really makes me like Carrie that she told Susan everything was going great - that's a good friend thing to do. Aside from what she's already doing to be a good friend.
HZ: And Veronica says, “Carrie went to the mat for you and one phone call can make it all worth it." It probably won't - Carrie is stuck with the consequences forever, because people will remember this shit and not the truth. That's what always fucking happens, right? People always remember the misreporting of rape, even though it's much much rarer than the actual crime. At the lunch tables, there's some bad ADR again. Veronica says to Carrie:
VERONICA: I went to see Susan. I'm sorry.
CARRIE: A lot of good that does me now.
HZ: And that's it. That's it! That's the attempt at reconciliation.
JOY: Don't worry, they're going to make some meaningful eye contact in a little bit.
HZ: They're interrupted by Weevil, still wearing that hard-working henley, Jenny.
JOY: Working hard!
HZ: And he's got a freshman named Hart with him, who's the one who was talking about earlier that may have evidence that Lynn did die by suicide.
JOY:Yeah. He shows them the video.
HZ: He'd been filming a war movie on the beach.?
JOY: Freshmen...
HZ: And whilst editing it, he saw something significant. So in the background of this shooty scene with the bridge in the background, a human sized little mark falls and splashes in the water and the timestamp confirms it's the same time that Lynn was reported to have jumped, and so Logan's hope dies. He's very good at expressing these emotions without overdoing it.
JOY: Yeah. I do appreciate Weevil really reinforcing to Hart that he will not be sharing this video to any news outlets or anyone else - the video will die with him. Otherwise he'll be starring in a snuff film directed by Weevil.
HZ: That's not great either, Weevil, it's not a great look on you. But it's nice that Weevil is trying to protect Logan.
JOY: Yeah, because remember their detention connection.
HZ: Detention and poker. Then Logan's hope is reborn as Veronica gets a notification that Lynn's missing credit card has been used.
JOY: It's a real roller coaster, Helen, phew.
HZ: This mystery is ongoing, and it means that Logan is still stuck in this suspension of not submitting fully to grief and sorrow. In the classroom, Clemmons announces that Rooks is leaving, and Rooks lurches in to collect his box of stuff.
JOY: Dude! What is this timing?
HZ: Do it earlier instead of in front of everyone! And he stares at either Veronica or Carrie - wasn't sure which one, because they're sitting next to each other.
JOY: But then Carrie and Veronica look at each other in something that I have to imagine is meant to be solidarity of some kind.
HZ: I think so. I do feel like Carrie deserved better from this whole thing. And also the Marses are back on the same side again.
VERONICA: Mr Rooks resigned today.
KEITH: Honey? If I were in trouble, I'd want you on my side.
JOY: And Veronica's like, "That's where I'd be!"
HZ: But Keith is just forgiving Veronica for straightaway leaping to the conclusion that Carrie had been lying and assuming that someone claiming to be a victim was lying? That's not a great look.
JOY: Well, if your dad isn't going to have space in his heart for trying to understand and empathise with you when you get maybe the wrong idea in your head, who is?
HZ: And then as a little treat to herself after all this busy time, Veronica goes back to death row. And why not get your shot glasses ready because she's there to see Abel Koontz, who's like, "Hello again, Veronica Mars."
JOY: God he needs a monocle and a top hat and half of his face to have been marred in like a terrible house fire.
HZ: “What would you like to know now, Veronica Mars?" Veronica has got some news for him, though. Well, it's not news to him. It's just news that she knows the news, because thanks to her poking around in his medical records, she knows that he is dying. And he knew that he was dying when he confessed to Lilly's murder: he’s somebody's patsy.
JOY: He doesn't like that.
HZ: And then she leaves.
JOY: Yeah, she's like - Mars out. Mic drop. Kerblam. Farewell.
HZ: The death row in California is in San Quentin, which is a fucking long way from Neptune to go for just a two line chat.
JOY: Well, as we know, Neptune defies the laws also of geographical physics. There's like sort of a thing where like Arizona is really close too.
HZ: Yes, good point. Before we mark this episode, Jenny, let's find out what crimes have been committed in the course of this episode, and check in with our resident lawyer and Southern California Marshmallow Lo Dodds for today's LoDown.
THE LODOWN
HZ: What charges would Mr. Rooks be facing for impregnating a student?
LO DODDS: So we all know that Mr. Rooks has committed statutory rape because it appears Susan Knight is under 18. Funnily enough, though, statutory rape is not one of the things that lands you on the sex offender registry.
HZ: Oh come on!
JOY: WHAT!!
LO DODDS: I know. I know.
JOY: WHAAAAT!!!
LO DODDS: I know. It's just that there are a lot of I know, there are a lot of crimes that go along with statutory rape that are going to probably land him there anyway, like indecent exposure, lewd conduct with a minor.
HZ: So what's gonna happen to him?
LO DODDS: He's gonna go to prison. Yeah, he's gonna go to prison and he's gonna pay quite a lot of money as well. So he's not just going to get fired from his public school teaching job, which is what the episode made it look like the only thing that happened to him. He wouldn't even be back on school grounds.
HZ: And then would Carrie be in trouble? Because she has made a false accusation and she has lied at a hearing.
LO DODDS: I don't think so, only because that wasn't a criminal case. So Carrie was alleging sexual harassment, which is how you know that Carrie is over 18. So she is in an administrative hearing, alleging that her teacher and her slept together consensually, but you notice there's no cops involved. So I don't think actually she gets anything because they, she accused him, they didn't find her statements to be true. And you can't really say they damaged his reputation in any way because it turned out he was actually a rapist.
JOY: Lo, in this episode, we see Veronica hide under a sink and then steal some some medical records. Now, it seems like stealing medical records would be illegal, and also maybe this is like, I don't know, something that would sound like criminal trespass or something. What all is going on here?
LO DODDS: Yeah, good. Yeah.
JOY: I'm doing a good job?
HZ: You're a lawyer now, Jenny!
JOY: Oh my god! Jenny Owen Youngs, Esquire, reporting for duty. I'm getting the business cards printed up right now. Please hold.
LO DODDS: She's definitely criminally trespassing. She should not be there. I don't know about the medical records, though. It's theft. So she's committed theft. And we do actually have a lot of news stories going around right now about people stealing medical records as a form of identity theft. So to the extent that she's getting into them because of social security numbers, stealing personal information in order to extort money from somebody if it's something private that they don't want people to know about. All of those lead to other crimes, but I don't know what Veronica could get with just for knowing it and not sharing it with anyone and not selling it and not doing anything with it other than knowing it. But it's theft. Yeah, larceny. Probably petty larceny.
JOY: Once you've been in to visit somebody on death row, is it easier to just pop by for sort of like triumphant in your face mic drop moment, like "got your medical records," smash them up against the glass and leave? The guard is like, "Oh, I recognise you, you're the tiny blonde from last week"?
LO DODDS: Yeah, I think you just put on the admission form that you're there for a mic drop, and they just let you right in.
HZ: I've just got a one-line visit planned.
HZ: Okay, this episode sucks, because it manages both to portray sexual assault victims being disbelieved and endorse people's views that accusations are false. It gets to have both of those things, both of those shit things that are really damaging.
JOY: Terrible cake to both eat and possess.
HZ: Yep. And it is good detective work from Veronica Mars, but also terrible human being work.
JOY: Not great. And kind of just like not characteristic. Doesn't feel super true to what we know about her so far.
HZ: Okay, so were there any lines that you did enjoy in this episode?
JOY: What I will hold in my heart for the rest of time is Weevil saying, "What? Did he lose a puka shell?" about Logan. I love it. What about you?
HZ: I like that scene like Keith is enjoying that Veronica got an ink explosion all over her face, which she deserved. And he says, "Honey, you don't have to get all blue in the face." And she says, "You're patronising me?" and he says "To be fair, I am your patron." Smug smug smug. Happy for him. But really I think he's very sad that he and his daughter are not getting along, so let's just give him this moment of Keith-smugging. And then how do you rate this?
JOY: Oh my god. I didn't want to watch almost any of it, but there were a handful of things that I loved, including Leo and Weevil doing Leo and Weevil stuff so...
HZ: Not together, I'm afraid.
JOY: Oh, maybe next time. So rather than give it a zero out of five I will, for Weevil and Leo’s sakes, give it a one out of five intrepid teen detectives hiding under your doctor's sink.
HZ: Yeah. I also did not like it. I will say that Veronica did some good procedural work. Just a lot of facts and dates and times and stuff. Solid detectiving. But she sucks so much in this episode that I can just give it two exploding ink packs.
JOY: Nice.
HZ: It's as nice as it deserves.
JOY: Well, that's another episode of Veronica Mars investigated.
HZ: Case mercifully closed.
JOY: Thank God. Not a moment too soon.
HZ: Yuck.
JOY: That was season 1, episode 14: Mars vs Mars.
HZ: Watch season 1 episode 15 and join us next week to investigate it.
JOY: Find the show on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook @VMIpod.
HZ: If you don't follow us on the socials then you're really missing out on Jenny Owen Youngs’s incredible work making collectible cards for a rich Neptune resident every episodem and also doing Veronica Mars Emojigations, summarising the episodes in emoji. Why are you depriving yourself? Why?
JOY: Thank you for noticing me, Helen.
HZ: Oh no! Is this the only validation you get from me?? The website, where the show lives inside a metal box booby-trapped by Keith, is VMIpod.com.
JOY: I'm Jenny Owen Youngs and you can hear me talk more about TV on my other podcast Buffering the Vampire Slayer and you can also hear some of my singing voice at jennyowenyoungs.com where you can find all of the info about all of my music, including the songs I've been releasing the last few months and my brand new EP Night Shift
HZ: Voice of an angel in speech and in musical form. I'm Helen Zaltzman; my other work includes Answer Me This and The Allusionist, both entertainment podcast. The Allusionist is still on a live tour of the United States of America until mid-December, so you should come along; the event listings are theallusionist.org/events.
JOY: This episode was edited and mixed by Zach McNees.
HZ: With music from Martin Austwick and Jenny Owen Youngs.
JOY: The sheriff of this town is Hrishikesh Hirway.
HZ: The show is distributed by PRX.
JOY: Until next time, who's your daddy Helen?
HZ: Who's your daddy, Jenny? Does he enjoy playing pranks on you like Keith Mars does on Veronica? Because my dad sure loved some pranks.
JOY: Oh my god, I think if my dad got his hands on some dye packs, it would be game over for me.
HZ: You would be blue in the face.